Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Faithful prevail in Virginia despite Hanson

The bishops must have a list serv in which they share their wisdoom (no that's not a typo-we are doomed if what we here from them is their combined wisdom). And this list serv must be ELCA and ECUSA, because they say the same stuff. Often it is word for word. "Create space," is just an example of the phreases that popped up in ECUSA and quickly became bishspeak in ELCA.

"We (fill in the blank as either Lutherans or Episopalians depending if the bishop is ELCA or ECUSA) are not Fundamentalists" is the current rage this summer. Here is Mark Hanson last weekend:

"Hanson said he rejects a literalistic view of the Bible "in this culture so dominated by fundamentalism." Instead of relying on a "bibliocentric" version of Christian faith, "I believe in a triune God who reveals God's self to me in Scripture," Hanson said, "who is revealed in Christ, and who is revealed for us in the bread and wine" of Communion." Read the rest of the story here (with the good news that Hanson was presentt to see his rec three voted down).

Friends, we have got a bishop who thinks "centered in the Word" is a bad thing. Did you see what I saw? How did it get this way?

Now check this out. Here's a quote from another bishop:

"The Hebrew Scriptures give us holy and unique accounts of the way in which the Jews perceived God to be working among them. They provide us the historical religious underpinnings of God's activity in the Incarnation, ministry, death, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus the Christ. We read, mark, learn and inwardly digest them because we still encounter God's challenge, promise, rebuke, healing, comfort, forgiveness, and reconciliation in them. But we do not count them inerrant, nor should we give any of them priority over the teachings of Jesus. Not the prophets, not the writings of Paul, not the Apocalypse of John. Many of them point to the Gospel, many attempt to provide apology for it, many help us understand it; but they do not equal it." Read the rest here

Only Fundamentalists believe what they read in the Bible. Good Lutherans and Episcoplains believe their bishop becasue the Triune God reveals Herself to them directly, okay.

Listen, I can't even follow some of these guys in their breatheless run-on sentences, but I do know enough to be suspicious, and I am beginning to believe that half of them are gnostics or worse.

Pray. Hard. Do not give up. It is an act of unfaith to say that the LORD cannot clean house in His own house. The answer is not, "Leave" the answer is "Kick butt." After all, that is what Jesus did to the other group of moneychangers.


Anonymous said...

What planet is Hanson living on! A "culture so dominated by fundamentalism"? If anything, our culture seems to be dominated by every -ism there is contrary to not only the best of fundamentalism, but Christianity in general.

He speaks with both sides of his mouth: calls for conversation despite our differences and, in affect, turns to "bad-mouthing" those who are willing to stand firm that Christ in not revealed apart from Scripture!

I think I would rather be in the company of an honest atheist than such a dishonest, heretical bishop!

Eli said...

When all else fails, start dropping F-bombs. "F" for fundementalism of course.

I think they really believe it. They have to. It is the big, evil, "they" out there that keeps the confusionists as the poor persecuted minority. Which is the template in which the confusionists need to operate. You can't get a good civil rights buzz going if you don't see yourself as the persecuted minority.

Jeff said...

I came to your blog via a link from "Midwest Conservative Journal" where Chris Johnson is chronicling the same situation in the ECUSA. I read you every day, but have not posted before. I was a life-long Lutheran (originally Missouri synod), who got into the ELCA because of the lack of Missouri churches here in southwestern Virginia. After having a sex scandal at our church with one pastor and another who didn't believe in sin and was a univesal salvation type (both are now out of the ministry), I led my family out of the ELCA a couple of years ago. I got tired of constantly fighting this battle, and I had to look out for the spiritual welfare of my sons, because constant mixed messages are not good for their spiritual health and growth. I am a professor at Virginia Tech, and ironically enough, was the campus sponsor of Bill King's campus ministry group, and he is quoted in the Roanoke times article you lnked to: "The Rev. Bill King, who works in campus ministry at Virginia Tech, said "I don't think the church can bind me from praying over same-sex couples who come to him for counsel." I wonder about the content of his prayer-what does he pray for with regard to gay couples? Knowing Bill as I do, I doubt that he is praying that they give up their lifestyle and give themsleves over to Christ. Do you really believe the apostates will honor the vote if it goes your way by changing their behavior? Do you think the ELCA leadership will disclipline those clergy who do not? ECUSA and the ELCA, along with the rest of liberal protestantism reject the core beliefs of Christianity itself. Sexuality issues are only the tip of the iceberg. You can continue to pray for them even if you attend another church, where your time, talent, and treasure isn't supporting a church structure that has substituted the wisdom of God for the desires of men.

Shrimp said...

Shrimp here: Thanks for your comments fellows. Let me say in a partial answer to you, Jeff, that I do not know how things are going to turn out. Really don't. And I'll quit as soon as God removes this from me. Until then I think I'll do just like Chris and fight the insanity as a way to stay sane.
I may be totally crazy, but I think the penduluum is going to swing back our way, but will anyone be left faithful when that happens?
It's going to be hard for them to get two-thirds. In synod assmeblies they have only gotten rec three passed in a third of them. If people get hope there, than maybe they will gear up to vote in a bishop who is not afraid to say he is "bibliocentric."
One good bishop who is willing to say "No" to revision and "Yes" to enforcement could be enough to turn the tide.
In the meantie I'm prepared to fight a rear-guard action.
If I was a lay person I might leave. I certainly would have done what Jeff did in his circumstance. As it is, I am ordained into this mess, and my concern is for the 7 million sheep in the ELCA and ECUSA.
I hope the ELCA gets radicalized like the ECUSA is. Perhaps the two revisionsit groups will join together and leave us to our old boring Confessional theology.
Who knows? I am 30th generation and am not walking away yet.
Anyone else?

Anonymous said...

Hi there. I have stopped by a few times. Like what I read. I am with you guys. I am an ordained ELCA pastor, and along with others we will fight the fight, until there is nothing left to defend.

You may want to know that the Eastern North Dakota Synod voted down the Sexuality Study as well and passed Dissenting option One, which demanded faithfulness to Scripture and enforcement of policy by bishops.

Rob Buechler, Pastor
Trinity-Bergen/Faith Lutheran Parish

The good ship ELCA...

The good ship ELCA...
Or the Shellfish blog...