Monday, March 17, 2008

Bishop Usgaard's Conclusion,
    and then to Holy Week

Bishop Harold "Huck" Usgaard of the Southeastern Minnesota Synod has written about the draft, too. We'll spare you the opening part -- go ahead, read it all here -- and cut right to his concluding paragraphs:
The final version of the Statement on Human Sexuality will be made available about this time next year. It will be available before our 2009 Synod Assembly, and give us an opportunity to discuss it and react to it before it is voted at the ELCA Churchwide Assembly in August 2009. We are planning substantial time during our 2009 Synod Assembly for discussion of this final statement. This will also offer an opportunity for resolutions to be discussed and voted from around our synod, and memorials to be sent to the Churchwide Assembly from the Southeastern Minnesota Synod regarding the statement.

Next year, at this time, recommendations regarding ordination of candidates in same sex relationships will also be made available. These were ordered by action of the 2007 ELCA Churchwide Assembly. You will note they are not included in this draft because they were not included on the original motion to produce a Social Statement on Human Sexuality. There will be the same opportunity at the 2009 Synod Assembly to discuss these recommendations, receive resolutions to be voted, and if desired, send memorials to the ELCA Churchwide Assembly.

Again, from previous experience, I suspect that some in the church will confuse this first draft with the final version of the statement. Remember and remind others that this is only a preliminary draft. Everyone is encourage to take an active part in the process. There often seem to be suspicions that decisions have already been made behind the scenes. That is simply not true. This is an opportunity for members to add their input. This is the time to to study the Scripture and Confessional texts used as a basis for the draft. Engage all members in discussion about relationships of friendship and trust and the central place of marriage. Discuss the division present in our church today around the topic of homosexuality. There is so much in this draft that speaks to the challenge of living a life of Christian faithfulness in our world today. What an opportunity this offers for us as a church and as individual believers.
And that's all the statements Shrimp had found by the end of the week on Synodical web sites, though we know other ELCA bishops have e-mailed the professional leaders in their synods noting the release of the draft, reminding folks of the upcoming hearings, and emphasizing that this is only a draft.

We'd be surprised if any of them have anything to add during Holy Week, and Shrimp encourages you to focus this week on matters of Holy Week itself. A good blog to be reading this week is The Confessing Reader -- read some scripture, reflect on the Word of God for each day, ponder some fine artistic renderings for Holy Week, and pray for the salvation of all.

Shrimp out.

6 comments:

Cap'n Bill said...

"Next year, at this time, recommendations regarding ordination of candidates in same sex relationships will also be made available. These were ordered by action of the 2007 ELCA Churchwide Assembly. You will note they are not included in this draft because they were not included on the original motion to produce a Social Statement on Human Sexuality. There will be the same opportunity at the 2009 Synod Assembly to discuss these recommendations, receive resolutions to be voted, and if desired, send memorials to the ELCA Churchwide Assembly."

Hey, I know that being out in the high seas doing marine salvage means ipso facto that I will miss information, but I do try and keep up. How exactly did the 2007 assembly require recommendations regarding ordination of candidates in same sex relationships?

Shrimp said...

Ahoy, Cap'n. Memorials related to standards for rostered leaders were referred to the Task Force.

Anonymous said...

Why did we need this again? Oh... that's right, Scripture is not clear. Hmmmmm......:

Old Testament:

Genesis 19
Leviticus 18 & 20
Judges 19

New Testament:

SEX:

• Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Matthew 15:18-20 (in Context) Matthew 15 (Whole Chapter)
• Mark 7:21
For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
Mark 7:20-22 (in Context) Mark 7 (Whole Chapter)
• Acts 15:20
Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Acts 15:19-21 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)
• Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts 15:28-30 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)
• Acts 21:25
As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
Acts 21:24-26 (in Context) Acts 21 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Romans 1:23-25 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
Romans 13:12-14 (in Context) Romans 13 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 5:1
[ Expel the Immoral Brother! ] It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.
1 Corinthians 5:1-3 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 5:9
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1 Corinthians 5:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 Corinthians 5:10-12 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 6:12
[ Sexual Immorality ] "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.
1 Corinthians 6:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 6:13
"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1 Corinthians 6:12-14 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
1 Corinthians 6:17-19 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 10:8
We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died.
1 Corinthians 10:7-9 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Corinthians 12:21
I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
2 Corinthians 12:20-21 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
• Galatians 5:19
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Galatians 5:18-20 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Ephesians 5:2-4 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Colossians 3:4-6 (in Context) Colossians 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Thessalonians 4:3
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
1 Thessalonians 4:2-4 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)
• Hebrews 12:16
See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
Hebrews 12:15-17 (in Context) Hebrews 12 (Whole Chapter)
• Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Hebrews 13:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 13 (Whole Chapter)


LUST:

• Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
Romans 1:25-27 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Romans 1:26-28 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Ephesians 4:19
Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
Ephesians 4:18-20 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
• Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Colossians 3:4-6 (in Context) Colossians 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Thessalonians 4:5
not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;
1 Thessalonians 4:4-6 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Peter 4:3
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
1 Peter 4:2-4 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Peter 2:18
For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 John 2:16
For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1 John 2:15-17 (in Context) 1 John 2 (Whole Chapter)

Passion:

• Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Romans 7:4-6 (in Context) Romans 7 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Corinthians 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
1 Corinthians 7:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 7 (Whole Chapter)
• Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:23-25 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Thessalonians 4:5
not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;
1 Thessalonians 4:4-6 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)
• Titus 2:12
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
Titus 2:11-13 (in Context) Titus 2 (Whole Chapter)
• Titus 3:3
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.

Detestable:

• Leviticus 18:22
" 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter)
• Leviticus 18:26
But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things,
Leviticus 18:25-27 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter)
• Leviticus 18:29
" 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people.
Leviticus 18:28-30 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter)
• Leviticus 18:30
Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "
Leviticus 18:29-30 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter)
• Leviticus 20:13
" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter)
1 Kings 14:24
There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.


Perversion:

• Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Romans 1:26-28 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Timothy 1:10
for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.


Mortal Body:

Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.


Sinful Nature:

1. Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Romans 7:4-6 (in Context) Romans 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Romans 7:18
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Romans 7:17-19 (in Context) Romans 7 (Whole Chapter)
3. Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 7:24-25 (in Context) Romans 7 (Whole Chapter)
4. Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
Romans 8:2-4 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
5. Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:3-5 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
6. Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Romans 8:4-6 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
7. Romans 8:8
Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Romans 8:7-9 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
8. Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Romans 8:8-10 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
9. Romans 8:12
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.
Romans 8:11-13 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
10. Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Romans 8:12-14 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)

Sodom:

• Matthew 10:15
I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matthew 10:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
• Matthew 11:23
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
Matthew 11:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 11 (Whole Chapter)
• Matthew 11:24
But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
Matthew 11:23-25 (in Context) Matthew 11 (Whole Chapter)
• Luke 10:12
I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.
Luke 10:11-13 (in Context) Luke 10 (Whole Chapter)
• Luke 17:29
But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:28-30 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 9:29
It is just as Isaiah said previously: "Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah."
Romans 9:28-30 (in Context) Romans 9 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:5-7 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
• Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:6-8 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)


Desires:

• Mark 4:19
but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Mark 4:18-20 (in Context) Mark 4 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Romans 1:23-25 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
Romans 6:11-13 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Romans 8:4-6 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
• Romans 13:14
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Romans 13:13-14 (in Context) Romans 13 (Whole Chapter)
• Galatians 5:16
[ Life by the Spirit ] So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Galatians 5:15-17 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• Galatians 5:17
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Galatians 5:16-18 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:23-25 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
• Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
Ephesians 2:2-4 (in Context) Ephesians 2 (Whole Chapter)
• Ephesians 4:22
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
Ephesians 4:21-23 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
• Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Colossians 3:4-6 (in Context) Colossians 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Timothy 3:1
[ Overseers and Deacons ] Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task.
1 Timothy 3:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Timothy 5:11
As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry.
1 Timothy 5:10-12 (in Context) 1 Timothy 5 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Timothy 6:9
People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
1 Timothy 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Timothy 6 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Timothy 2:22
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Timothy 2:21-23 (in Context) 2 Timothy 2 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Timothy 3:6
They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,
2 Timothy 3:5-7 (in Context) 2 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
• James 1:20
for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.
James 1:19-21 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
• James 4:1
[ Submit Yourselves to God ] What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?
James 4:1-3 (in Context) James 4 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
1 Peter 1:13-15 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Peter 2:11
Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.
1 Peter 2:10-12 (in Context) 1 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 Peter 4:2
As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
1 Peter 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
2 Peter 1:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Peter 2:18
For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 Peter 3:3
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
2 Peter 3:2-4 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:16-18 (in Context) 1 John 2 (Whole Chapter)
• Jude 1:16
These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
Jude 1:15-17 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)
• Jude 1:18
They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires."
Jude 1:17-19 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)

Anonymous said...

Is Scripture so clear...as it was abundantly clear on the subject of slavery and that women should not be ordained?

--The inicident at Sodom was an attempted gang-rape of strangers, an act of violence and domination that no more defines a loving same-sex union than Jack the Ripper defines your marriages.

--As St. Hippolytus knew, Paul in Romans 1 was referring to the worship of Cybele the mother goddess, who had a large following in both Rome and Corinth. Cybele was worshiped with idols in the form of mortal man (she in her chariot), four-footed beasts (lions), and creeping things (snakes). In a chilling exchange of sex and degradation of the body, her "Galli" priests would castrate themselves and play the part of women in temple prostitution. Female devotees of Cybele were fitted with artificial phalli to take the part of men.

Once one knows these things, Paul's example in Romans 1 becomes more clear...and it does *not* describe gay and lesbian believers who have trused in Christ from infancy and who strive to honor and love God.

"Arsenokoites" is the word used in 1 Corinthians 6:9, and the ancient Christian apologist Aristides in the year 125 A.D. uses it to refer to the kidnapping of the beautiful boy Ganymede by the god Zeus to be Zeus's cupbearer and sexual slave. Sexual domination of another is what is referred to.

Note also that Leviticus 18 and 20 don't simply forbid a man (no lesbians by the way) to sleep with a man, rather what is forbidden is to sleep with a man "as with a woman", implying the gender-bending Canaanite priests of Baal, which is why "toveah" is used, a word that often refers to idolatrous practices.

By the way, Shellfish, do you eat them? I think they are forbidden in Leviticus as well.

Luther said he could be convinced by Scripture and "right reason". I think it would be good to talk to some survivors of the "ex-gay" movement to realize that gay does not go away, and that the emotional, mental, and bodily health of many is affected by denying something as basic as left-handedness is to certain human beings.

Christ did not come to lay heavy burdens on our backs without lifting a finger to help us -- as the Pharisees did. He came to save our lives, not destroy them.

Shrimp said...

Shrimp here, Anonymous #2. We may stay away from Cap'n Bill's dinner plate, but none of us are cannibals. Besides, we've heard of Peter's vision in Acts of what foods are now clean and unclean. We also are able to distinguish between sexual relations and eating.

As for the "'ex-gay' movement," many of them have themselves for some time now been quite clearly teaching that (to use your clever phrase) "gay does not go away." The matter remains, as it always has, how someone responds to temptations, desires, urges, etc. And how someone responds after having fallen into temptations, desires, urges, etc. One example of this is (now, don't curl up in horror) Focus on the Family's Love Won Out ministry.

Meanwhile, Shrimp continues to await someone to point to any positive Biblical reference to any homosexual activity. Say, something along the lines of the postive references to left-handed men in Judges?

Shrimp out.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous #2,

I'm glad, again, to see today's theologians are so much wiser and well read than our predecessors of the past 2,000 years. In fact, re-read Deitrich Bonhoeffer's "The Cost of Discipleship"... especially Chapter 10. You will see that as recently as 70 years ago our position was still orthodox in regards to sexuality. What makes us so much wiser today? Must be the internet... ;-)

The good ship ELCA...

The good ship ELCA...
Or the Shellfish blog...